I believe the statement is in the Flock book. Not sure if there's a WT article refered to there or not. Don' have a copy at the moment.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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14
Not doubting in private
by 5thGeneration incan anyone please help me find this wt quote.. it was from around 1999-2002.. where it says it would be wrong to have any doubts, even in private.
something to that effect.. thanks.. 5th.
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Question for Billy The Ex-Bethelite and others who had forgone college sometime ago.
by garyneal ini was talking with my wife today about college and i asked her about why the society makes such a big deal about witnesses not going to college.
in typical dub fashion, my wife tells me that they do not discourage college, but they do not encourage it either.
instead, they encourage placing kingdom interests first.. now i told her about you (billy) and how you were at bethel and are now starting college at the age of 40 (i think that is correct).
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Doubting Bro
As someone who skipped college directly out of high school because of the WTS's advice, I did not decide to return so that I could live an extravagent lifestyle. I was fortunate in that I started working for a company that at first didn't require a degree to do my job. I took some professional designation courses that basically substituted for the degree. But, as time went by, I realized that people several layers below me and everyone I managed had degrees. So, I believed that in order for me to maintain my position or compete with others for new jobs if necessary, I would have to get the degree. I also resented a bit that a religion had the audacity to tell me what kind and how much secular education I needed.
I think that if you want to get a decent job, you probably need a bachelor's degree just to get your foot in the door. I'm not saying that good jobs don't exist without one, but its much more difficult.
Believe me, temptations exist whether you're in college or whether you in the workplace. That's a weak excuse. A 18 y/o could move out on their own or with a roommate and face the very same things as an 18 y/o that moves away to college.
I honestly never understood the anti-education stance and I never will.
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More Society cutbacks - Society says "screw you" to the publishers yet again
by sir82 inat our service meeting it was announced that there is a change in the manner in which magazines are now to be delivered to the congregations.. up until now, magazines were sent to each kingdom hall via ups.
in years past magazines were sent to each congregation po's home address via ups.. going forward, magazines will be sent only as far as the assembly hall.
it is the responsibility of each kingdom hall to send brother(s) twice a month to drive out there, pick up the magazines, and return.. this of course saves a little bit of money for the society - shipping larger packages to fewer addresses will cost less.. however, what about the expense to the local congregations?.
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Doubting Bro
I recall several years ago they started shipping to AHs and asking local congos to pick up the orders. But, it was voluntary and only for congos within a certain radius. So, are they now making it mandatory? The SM I attend is Thurs so I'll be curious if that letter is read here or if it was something local.
PS - I know there was a "brief" elders meeting after the Sunday meeting this week to discuss "letters regarding circuit business". I haven't heard what that was about so maybe this is it?
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Observations since the book study arrangement finished
by truthseeker indoes anyone have any interesting observations since the book study arrangement in private homes finished?.
are jws happier with the extra night off?
do they miss the book study?
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Doubting Bro
serenitynow! makes a fantastic point. One hall I went to had 4 out of 6 CBS held at the hall because no one would volunteer their home! I had it in my house for a few years and it was a hassle for the most part.
I will say that when I was a kid we had it at our house and I had fun (at least once the meeting was over). My friends would bring their play clothes in the summer and we'd play outside until it was too dark to see. People always stayed after and that was my favorite meeting as a kid.
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Observations since the book study arrangement finished
by truthseeker indoes anyone have any interesting observations since the book study arrangement in private homes finished?.
are jws happier with the extra night off?
do they miss the book study?
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Doubting Bro
I still think the primary reason is what Billy said, a lack of brothers (I know of lots of MS who had their own study group and that was unheard of 15 years ago) to conduct. If you think the average JW is happy with one less meeting night, the elders I know were giddy about only having to conduct maybe once a month (less in congos with large BOEs).
While I did see things go off the beaten path occassionally, the current "generation" of JWs are not all that inclined to get too deep into the material (in my experience). I always made it a practice of finishing a little early, especially on goodie night.
As ynot stated, I think the local congregations are becoming less close and not having the separate BS groups is a big reason for that. While EVERY single JW that I know is thrilled to have the night off from meetings, many would have rather seen the TMS/MS cancelled and the book study groups continued.
I think the WTS may have underestimated the social aspect and feeling of closeness the CBS gave to the congregations. Of course, the horse is out of the barn. They would have an extremely difficult time reinstating the extra meeting night. Maybe they knew it would be demoralizing but felt like they didn't have a choice. That meeting was typically the least attended but a sentimental favorite.
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End of Pioneer Assist - real reasons?
by freddo ini reckon that the sentence at the start of paragraph two of the letter to elders that says "in view of the good results and for other practical reasons, it is now felt that the pioneer assist others program has accomplished its purpose.
" (italics mine) is legal cya because if a pioneer goofs up and injures (while driving?
) or molests an assistee then there is a direct link to the wts because a pioneer is society appointed.. follow the dollars ....
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Doubting Bro
MLE, I agree that the program always seemed a bit demeaning. If I recall correctly, the original intent was to help those who were on the cusp of becoming pioneers. It turned into (at least places I've been) a program for those who were low hour/irregular pubs. I saw a couple of reactions from pioneers who were part of the program: 1) Wanna be elders who looked at the program as an opportunity to "shepherd" ie tell others what to do. Generally this group were women who wanted the authority but realized this program was as close as they were ever going to get in the JW system. My MIL is in this category and 2) Complete lack of interest and in many cases outright refusal to participate.
The folks that were being "assisted" usually looked at it as if they weren't good enough to be "assisted" by the elders and were being pawned off onto the pioneers (usually the case). I know more that refused to be in the program than actually accepted.
Interesting theory regarding liability. As Sir82 mentioned, the WTS doesn't directly appoint regular pioneers anymore and I'm sure that was because of liability. But, I think you'd be hard pressed to make the liability connection based on this program. I remember there was a case in FL a few years ago involving a auto accident while in FS. The WTS was able to wiggle out because the plaintiffs weren't able to make the case that the individual pubs were actual agents of the WTS. I think there is enough information to make the case because:
1 - Elders are appointed directly by the WTS and lead FS groups including where and when to meet and where to work. COs also fall into this category.
2 - Individual congregation territory boundaries are determined by the branch.
3 - Meeting parts demonstrating what to say are given on a regular basis. Suggestions on how to present the sales materials are also given via the KM.
4 - Time and pubs are reported back to the WTS.
5 - The WTS designates that one Sat a month be devoted to making bible studies (showing that the individual pubs are not just doing this on their own).
6 - The WTS determines who can be a "publisher" and who can not. The local BOE actually enforces written WTS direction.
7- The lack of this type of "volunteering" impacts how the individual is viewed and utilized in the local congregation and at WTS sponsored events like DCs.
Sorry for the sidetrack.
Is the WTS easing up? I just don't see it. I think GB 2.0 is going to be every bit hardline as GB 1.0. Remember Jaracz handpicked many of the younger ones. The next year will tell the tale.
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Doubting Bro
Recently finished my BA in Business. Graduated with honors and in my early 40s.
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Why are you here, Bane?
by dgp ini was wondering.
not that i have anyone in mind (except for bane).
what motivates an active and zealous jehovah's witness to come to a website like this one and insult everyone for being apostates, et cetera?
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Doubting Bro
out scripturize them at every turn.
That may be one of the funniest expressions I've ever read on this board.
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-18-10 WT Study (REACH OUT)
by blondie incomments.
comments.
you sow with a view to the spirit.
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Doubting Bro
today - If he was an adult convert, having a nonJW (I can get myself to type unbelieving) wife would not hold him back in the least. If he was a born-in who married outside the organization, then he may not be viewed as "exemplary" and that could hold him back or at least make it more difficult.
onemore - I haven't heard anything about the materials (other than a new Flock book) or program of the new elders school scheduled for the fall. I assumed it would be similar to what they had for the COBOEs. Any specifics you could share would be great. And, congrats on stepping "aside". That awkward feeling that all eyes are upon you and the comments about how much your parts are missed will go away soon enough. I'll bet you feel as if a giant weight as been lifted!!
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-18-10 WT Study (REACH OUT)
by blondie incomments.
comments.
you sow with a view to the spirit.
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Doubting Bro
Blondie,
Glad you're feeling a little better. Please know that your efforts are appreciated!
Regarding the article, it's clear how desperate the WTS is for men to take on the low level management jobs. In the congregation I attend, there are more ex-elders than current elders. And, NONE of those guys (myself included) would EVER consider doing the job again. And I think the majority of them still believe the WTS has the "truth" but they just were burned by politics or burned out. The MS pipeline has a few that will likely be appointed one day (if they last that long) but it's slim pickings.
I do like how the WT article tries to guilt guys into "reaching out", subtly insulting them by acting as if the reason they don't want to be an elder is because they're not "spiritual". However, I don't think the guilt trip will work on folks that were once elders/ms because they've seen behind the curtain.
I also think its so funny that for years the WTS pointed to the Catholic priest shortage as a sign that Bablyon the Great had fallen and yet now they're facing the very same problem!!! I know of several congregations that have been combined primarily due to a shortage of elders. Look for that trend to continue, despite articles such as these.